Just as we aren’t above criticism, neither are any of the critics. Some of these lists are absolutely ridiculous. And while we’re on the subject, there’s only one ‘e’ in ‘bread’, you cotton-headed ninny muggins meash pwd.
01. Nic Harcourt
Jessica Hoop #1, Great Northern #7… really just a complete disaster.
02. Stylus Magazine
LCD Soundsystem in the pole position is a joke. Stylus Magazine I love you, but you’re bringing me down.
03. Skatterbrain
OK Skatterbrain, I get it, you have more obscure taste than everyone else. I haven’t had people give me a hard time about my taste recently, but when they do, they point out that just because something is less popular doesn’t make it better. For once I agree.
04. Paste Magazine
#76: Okkervil River, #8: Modest Mouse… riiiight.
05. Uncut Magazine
An uber-crappy top 10 (not to mention – well I guess I am mentioning… The Hold Steady came out last year).
[image courtesy of the insanely awesome Shopping List Compendium]
oh fuck off
i dont hold myself above anyone
i’m sorry you dont have the same tastes as me
but those are the records i loved this year
it has nothing to do with them being less popular
dick
Yawn. Uncut is a UK magazine – the Hold Steady album came out in 2007 in the UK.
matt, when blogs dissolve to pure personal preference, there can be no discourse, no discussion. perhaps we’ve become so post-modern its not even necessary to reconcile our personal perspective, but i would like to think we can find some common ground. not to diminish your voice, but there a lot of other people out there with louder voices, not just me, saying that the bands on your list are nowhere near the best of the year and, unless you are the unfound prodigal son of rolling stone, i think you are going have to take some criticism (and maybe realize that there is a grain of salt in there). when you put something out there in cyberspace, people read it and they react to it.
Matt’s list clearly has the words “my favorite records” preceding the list. The people who read his blog don’t do so because they think he’s going to supply them with the best amalgamation of what the “louder voices” are suggesting; they do it because they’re interested in — or at least curious about — the kind of music he enjoys. In fact, I’d say that any person, blog or publication who changes their preferences and suggestions based on what is expected of them or what they think will be most in line with their reader’s opinions is doing a tremendous disservice to their readers and to themselves.
No discourse? No discussion? Tell that to the 44 people who left comments on Matt’s post.
What the second Matt said. Actually, what both Matts said. And “blogs dissolv[ing] to pure personal preference” seems a pretty good goal to me. Rather that than blogs dissolving into unthinking ad-ridden corporate shills or pathetic consensual echo-chambers which, oh wait, they have.
maybe if the author of this blog actually expended something more than a feeble measure of effort into meaningful exposition, he/she would not find it necessary to call into question the methods or choices of others and would, rather, be able to coherently relay their own choices. you don’t have to like matt’s list. but in terms of credibility, you haven’t got the goods to even say his name much less challenge his choices. try beefing up the examples of your own work before you go after other writers.
finally! an ad hominem attack. i was hoping this would devolve to that. well, thinking that the point of blogs was that everyone had a voice and nobody had any credentials, i’m a bit confused by your argument, EJ. i guess by that line, you wouldn’t be worthy of posting here without getting your i.d. checked at the door.
there are only two points i want to make in regards to the comments above. first, i think people may have taken the tone of the post to be more spiteful than it was intended. that’s fine, but the angry responses make me think that the blog world isn’t as open to criticism as it is to giving opinions. i would argue that you can’t expect one without the other. second, i don’t think i went out on a limb in questioning the focus of the list in question. had matt titled the list as ‘underrated’ or ‘recommendations,’ i certainly would not have included it here. being a music fiend, i’ve listened to, and even enjoyed, many of the albums on matt’s list. but i wouldn’t recommend them above ‘additional listening,’ unless the point of the recommendation is obscurity. that’s no way to enjoy music, because we’ll always find more obscure bands to outdo each other with.
matt and J: discourse is not backslapping and cheers for your ability to publish something on the web. music review is about analysis, criticism, insight, and locating new music in the context of all that went before. anyone can have an opinion, the question is why should anyone else care? to echo marget mason’s blog writing book, no one care’s what you have for lunch, contemporaneity does not equal uniqueness. just because it happened does not make it good.
also, i am pretty sure discussion doesn’t start with ‘fuck off’.
Topomodesto: “…Angry responses make me think that the blog world isn’t as open to criticism as it is to giving opinions.” — I’m not saying “stop criticizing Matt.” I’m criticizing your critique. If you’re able to say that Matt didn’t do a good job with his article, then you should be able to listen to commenters who say that this article was done poorly.
Also your admission that “the point of blogs was that everyone had a voice and nobody had any credentials” seems to contradict your suggestion that Matt bow to the opinions of those with louder voices.
Freed: So your suggestion to Matt is … what? When he writes an article about the albums he enjoyed most that year, he should lie? The point of Matt’s blog (and most music blogs) is not to pretend to be the most well-educated and trustworthy opinion on music. Music blogs are a way for ordinary people to share music that has brought them joy. Analysis, criticism and insight are great, but don’t think they trump honesty for a minute. If you enjoyed a record, tell me you enjoyed it. I don’t want you to bump it off your top 20 for some album you think you should include because of other people’s opinions. To echo Shakespeare, “To thine own self be true.”
Matt- your reading of freed’s post (not mine, as you suggest) as saying that “one needs to bow to other’s opinions” is not what he is saying. what he is saying is that the end game of a conversation or discussion is not just that two voices speak. it is to draw from each others opinions to either find common ground or to establish the disagreement.
i started off my post saying that we are not above criticism. but you are the first here to target the writing of the post rather than its subject. that is a fair critique, but i’m not saying that matt did a bad job in writing his article or that he doesn’t recommend good bands. what i am questioning is his list as a top 15 for the year. if his intent was to list the most underrated albums of the year, then he should have made that clear. if those are his favorite releases of the year, he is welcome to that opinion but i would argue that obscurity is factoring into his preferences. if people wanted to argue about his selections (or our upcoming ones), rather than name calling or that i questioned his list, i’m more than happy to argue this. but to say that we aren’t leaving ourselves open to criticism or aren’t listening is a hard sell.
my point was that the effort that you expended critiquing other lists could have just as well been used creating content for your site that was actually meaningful to you or your readers. if you’re going to attack someone else’s work, you should have something credible with which to validate your attack.
other people’s choices, as you stated in your rebuttal, should be considered just as valid as your own because nobody has any credentials. if you actually believe what you said about that, what would be the reason to single out matt’s, or really anyone else’s, year-end list?
i agree with the sentiment of what you wrote, because i can’t stand people who create lists that merely include things less well known for the purpose of seeming “more credible”. matt’s list isn’t what i was referring to in my rant at all. i know matt, i’ve talked to him about music online a lot, i read his blog and i know what he actually, truly likes. his list reflects that.
as for the “ad hominem attack”, doesn’t it seem in retrospect that your criticism of matt’s choices was the ad hominem attack that seeded this comment farm?
matt- good points. for fear of beating this horse further i think our differences come down to what you feel a blog is for. if its a more journal like recording of personal thoughts, feelings and observations i can see how topo’s list could be derogatory.
louis menand had a great piece in this weeks new yorker that i think is a pretty good look at diaries and related to this discussion of the blogging.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2007/12/10/071210crat_atlarge_menand
i think i’ve had about enough arguing about the intent of my 150-word post, but in response to EJ, i will say that my critique of the focus on obscurity rather than quality of the Skatterbrain post is not an ad hominem attack. avoiding a discussion of my argument by saying that i don’t have the credentials to make it, is.
i’m away through new year, and this site is set up to filter all the spam that we get, so if there are further comments that don’t make it online in the meantime, it’s just because we’re on autopilot, not because we don’t welcome them.
“An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the man”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.”
perhaps it was merely an expression of my opinion that you expended a feeble measure of effort into meaningful exposition in your work which would have been evidenced by your blog entries, for example. if that’s true, then i guess you were merely expressing your opinion when you said said “Some of these lists are absolutely ridiculous” and went on to name several examples.
scatterbrain’s list was one of the year’s most enjoyable lists. in a sea of predictable lists (not saying there’s anything wrong with predictable lists), it’s nice to see someone putting up a list of albums that really reflects the sort of music they are into. if matt had put up a list that included spoon, animal collective and arcade fire, we’d all be confused cause he never posts about those artists on his blog that is mostly about indiepop and dream pop and that kind of stuff.