Comments on: everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/ don't you think that if we knew how we would have already? Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:00:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.2 Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: Dindie http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-129 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:15:33 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-129 Freed, I cede your points regarding the hype/marketing/sales of Indie music approacing epidemic status. Maybe it is time to start a new thread once suggested by a co-worker of mine: "Is Indie the New Mainstream?" Best - Dindie Freed, I cede your points regarding the hype/marketing/sales of Indie music approacing epidemic status. Maybe it is time to start a new thread once suggested by a co-worker of mine: “Is Indie the New Mainstream?”

Best - Dindie

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: freed http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-128 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:15:34 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-128 dindie, its your last point, about being steam rolled, that rings most true. i am not arguing against being a consumer, we are all consumers in some way, part of a giant economic machine churning round and round. what i cannot accept is the way music is pre-selected, pre-packaged, and delivered to the public with impeccable production in spite of its quality while being touted as the next big thing. this in fact has nothing to do with the artist, but rather with those that bring the music to market. it is not a question of taste either, its a question of use value. when the value of a product in a market is not driven by its quality, but instead by hyperbole and exageration, then you have unfounded hype. it use to be much easier to navigate the independent music scene, before we had to wade through all this hoopla. Its hard enough finding good new music Yindies further muddy the waters by bringing a new scale of buying power to independent music along with all the attendent entrepenurial hype-makers that want a piece of the action. what's the motto of any good salesman? you have to make the customer think they need what you're selling. dindie, its your last point, about being steam rolled, that rings most true. i am not arguing against being a consumer, we are all consumers in some way, part of a giant economic machine churning round and round. what i cannot accept is the way music is pre-selected, pre-packaged, and delivered to the public with impeccable production in spite of its quality while being touted as the next big thing. this in fact has nothing to do with the artist, but rather with those that bring the music to market. it is not a question of taste either, its a question of use value. when the value of a product in a market is not driven by its quality, but instead by hyperbole and exageration, then you have unfounded hype. it use to be much easier to navigate the independent music scene, before we had to wade through all this hoopla. Its hard enough finding good new music Yindies further muddy the waters by bringing a new scale of buying power to independent music along with all the attendent entrepenurial hype-makers that want a piece of the action. what’s the motto of any good salesman? you have to make the customer think they need what you’re selling.

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: Dindie http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-127 Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:13:50 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-127 I have to agree with topo here. I am sure that none of us posting here works for free. You (more than likely) have a job, and if you are luckly, you enjoy what you are doing and get compensated accordingly. Why then, would one expect musicians to work for free? What is wrong with making a buck? The assumption seems to be that if you make money in any manner, you are a sell-out. This seems to be an inflexible indie doctrine in any of the arts. When art, or in this case music, speaks to a larger audience rather than just the self-select few, is that really a bad thing? Isn't the goal of art to communicate? Doen't communication imply an audience? Or is the desire to be part of a unique and small set of consumers just too appealing? And make no mistake about it, we are all consumers no matter what your stance on the issue. If you listen, smell, taste, feel or see it, you are consuming it. Whether or not it is consumed through mainstream channels or not is a personal choice. I grant that not enough people pay attention to the delivery vehicle, but it does not cheapen the product in most cases. Music exists. It is there. I can chose to listen to it and enjoy it or not. Who really cares if I am the first on the bandwagon or the last? Listen to what you enjoy, do not be run steamrolled by the bandwagon of cool - Indie or YIndie. Anyway, my 1 1/2 cents worth - hope it makes sense I have to agree with topo here. I am sure that none of us posting here works for free. You (more than likely) have a job, and if you are luckly, you enjoy what you are doing and get compensated accordingly. Why then, would one expect musicians to work for free? What is wrong with making a buck?

The assumption seems to be that if you make money in any manner, you are a sell-out. This seems to be an inflexible indie doctrine in any of the arts. When art, or in this case music, speaks to a larger audience rather than just the self-select few, is that really a bad thing? Isn’t the goal of art to communicate? Doen’t communication imply an audience?

Or is the desire to be part of a unique and small set of consumers just too appealing? And make no mistake about it, we are all consumers no matter what your stance on the issue. If you listen, smell, taste, feel or see it, you are consuming it. Whether or not it is consumed through mainstream channels or not is a personal choice. I grant that not enough people pay attention to the delivery vehicle, but it does not cheapen the product in most cases.

Music exists. It is there. I can chose to listen to it and enjoy it or not. Who really cares if I am the first on the bandwagon or the last? Listen to what you enjoy, do not be run steamrolled by the bandwagon of cool - Indie or YIndie.

Anyway, my 1 1/2 cents worth - hope it makes sense

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: topomodesto http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-125 Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:13:12 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-125 interesting point, sue. i'm hesitant to place blame on artists, though... they make music and you can choose to listen to it or not. but there is a point in the life of a musician where it goes from a hobby to a carrer. the best musicians enjoy what they do, that passion is conveyed in the music. most smaller acts barely break even on the money they invest in making music. it is hard to blame someone for being conscious of the business of music when their artistic decisions effect their livelihood. interesting point, sue. i’m hesitant to place blame on artists, though… they make music and you can choose to listen to it or not. but there is a point in the life of a musician where it goes from a hobby to a carrer. the best musicians enjoy what they do, that passion is conveyed in the music. most smaller acts barely break even on the money they invest in making music. it is hard to blame someone for being conscious of the business of music when their artistic decisions effect their livelihood.

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: Sue http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-124 Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:51:36 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-124 I got cut off: Anyway, maybe my reaction was different because it can be said that I'm rather young and perhaps idealistic...but I know i'd be a whole lot happier and alot less worried about what other crap was out there if there was a larger body of artists producing truly well made art. I got cut off:

Anyway, maybe my reaction was different because it can be said that I’m rather young and perhaps idealistic…but I know i’d be a whole lot happier and alot less worried about what other crap was out there if there was a larger body of artists producing truly well made art.

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: Sue http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-123 Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:09:55 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-123 now, i came across this blog several months ago, and check up on it periodically, but this was the first time i felt prompted to post a comment due to the fact that i came away from this post with thoughts focusing on a different aspect of "the problem" than the other comments... there are always going to be lame people out there who follow trends because they are too weakminded or lazy to think for themselves. there will always be savvy bsuinessmen/women out there who realize this and take advantage. [ see: "yindies have disposable income and advertisers and megamedia conglomerates have taken notice that there is a market there." cant argue that.] the problem i've found lately? the artists. Now'ndays, if your music is heard (not to be confused with being listened to) or if you have a music myspace or WHATEVER, you "make music". Much akin to the turn of the century (19th into 20th) when, if you wrote something in iambic pentameter that was fourtneen lines, you were automatically a poet (having filled the requirements for the Sonnet, a poem). People need to get back to the basics of what music ought to be. No, not clamoring to be heard by as many people as possible, or get your name onto the charts or get signed or whatever...but making something that will move people..something that is true to the artist. I dont really care where it moves them...but if you can evoke something, dont you think that THAT is going to get you the attention and the momentum you need to move your band/solo act/experimentation forward? It seems to work for alot of the previous greats. I really dont see why all these stereotypical bands of so many genres out there cant seem to grasp this. Anyway, maybe my reaction was different bec now, i came across this blog several months ago, and check up on it periodically, but this was the first time i felt prompted to post a comment due to the fact that i came away from this post with thoughts focusing on a different aspect of “the problem” than the other comments…

there are always going to be lame people out there who follow trends because they are too weakminded or lazy to think for themselves. there will always be savvy bsuinessmen/women out there who realize this and take advantage. [ see: “yindies have disposable income and advertisers and megamedia conglomerates have taken notice that there is a market there.” cant argue that.]

the problem i’ve found lately? the artists. Now’ndays, if your music is heard (not to be confused with being listened to) or if you have a music myspace or WHATEVER, you “make music”. Much akin to the turn of the century (19th into 20th) when, if you wrote something in iambic pentameter that was fourtneen lines, you were automatically a poet (having filled the requirements for the Sonnet, a poem).

People need to get back to the basics of what music ought to be. No, not clamoring to be heard by as many people as possible, or get your name onto the charts or get signed or whatever…but making something that will move people..something that is true to the artist. I dont really care where it moves them…but if you can evoke something, dont you think that THAT is going to get you the attention and the momentum you need to move your band/solo act/experimentation forward? It seems to work for alot of the previous greats. I really dont see why all these stereotypical bands of so many genres out there cant seem to grasp this.

Anyway, maybe my reaction was different bec

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: Dindie http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-122 Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:20:05 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-122 I think I need to go get a glass of milk to wash down all of the "lifestyle" I am "consuming". I think I need to go get a glass of milk to wash down all of the “lifestyle” I am “consuming”.

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: freed http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-121 Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:46:15 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-121 oh, so if it rains its not reasonable to wear a raincoat? don't be so black and white, we have to fight for our shades of gray. why? resistance is the opposite of complacency. and if we learned anything from the punk movement, that resistence par excellance, good new things come from fighting existing paradigms. the people that should make money from entertaining are the entertainers, not some lackey corporate lapdog who slaps on a 200% markup for their time, expertise, and connections. will it ever be that way? no, but that doesn't make it right to accept things the way they are. tastemakers taking handouts from yindies are fine so long as they dont screw with the music. the fact is that death cab for cutie's album should have bombed and it didnt. i had to listen to it every time i walked into an urban outfittersesque hipster consumer mecca. to get back to topic, and sorry i couldnt post a link for this, bemis's list included this prognostication: "It's announced that the performers for the 2007's Super Bowl Halftime Show in Miami will be a new supergroup calle The Clap Your Go Team Fire! The show will be sponsored by the newest addition to the MTV networks family, Pitchfork Television." oh, so if it rains its not reasonable to wear a raincoat? don’t be so black and white, we have to fight for our shades of gray. why? resistance is the opposite of complacency. and if we learned anything from the punk movement, that resistence par excellance, good new things come from fighting existing paradigms. the people that should make money from entertaining are the entertainers, not some lackey corporate lapdog who slaps on a 200% markup for their time, expertise, and connections. will it ever be that way? no, but that doesn’t make it right to accept things the way they are. tastemakers taking handouts from yindies are fine so long as they dont screw with the music. the fact is that death cab for cutie’s album should have bombed and it didnt. i had to listen to it every time i walked into an urban outfittersesque hipster consumer mecca. to get back to topic, and sorry i couldnt post a link for this, bemis’s list included this prognostication:

“It’s announced that the performers for the 2007’s Super Bowl Halftime Show in Miami will be a new supergroup calle The Clap Your Go Team Fire! The show will be sponsored by the newest addition to the MTV networks family, Pitchfork Television.”

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: topomodesto http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-120 Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:39:47 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-120 there is always going to be a mainstream for you to backlash against. that is the role of the indie snob. you seem to be arguing for either <strong>a)</strong> a world in which there is no marketing of music and nothing that gets hyped, or <strong>b)</strong> music listening is reserved for the music cognoscenti. both of these are naive notions. music is entertainment and entertainment is for sale. yes, it bothers me that kcrw events are packed with indie yuppie subscribers who are "<a href="http://www.powells.com/biblio/61-0758209797-0" rel="nofollow">down for whatever</a>," but i appreciate, at least, that the tastemakers have selected something of substance for them, now that traditional hit-single marketing is failing. what are you suggesting as an alternative? what would you prefer? <a href="http://locker.uky.edu/~ntgrav2/mail.jpg">this</a>? ps - goldspot was higher on <a href="http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2005/12/31/favorite-albums-2005/" rel="nofollow">your list</a> than <a href="http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2005/12/31/favorite-albums-2005-1/" rel="nofollow">mine</a>, my friend. there is always going to be a mainstream for you to backlash against. that is the role of the indie snob. you seem to be arguing for either a) a world in which there is no marketing of music and nothing that gets hyped, or b) music listening is reserved for the music cognoscenti. both of these are naive notions. music is entertainment and entertainment is for sale. yes, it bothers me that kcrw events are packed with indie yuppie subscribers who are “down for whatever,” but i appreciate, at least, that the tastemakers have selected something of substance for them, now that traditional hit-single marketing is failing. what are you suggesting as an alternative? what would you prefer? this?

ps - goldspot was higher on your list than mine, my friend.

]]> Comment on everybody’s talkin’ about their short lists by: freed http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-119 Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:22:48 +0000 http://hearsay.alphaquam.com/2006/01/20/everybodys-talkin-about-their-short-lists/#comment-119 no, not less good music in the mainstream. less music "consumed" for sake of lifestyle. you are arguing that the ends, more good music in the mainstream, justify the means. my problem is with the means, that the yindie population is exerting a disproportionately large influence on music, an influence that undoubtably will grow in 06. yindies have disposable income and advertisers and megamedia conglomerates have taken notice that there is a market there. what do you think kcrw is? perhaps the most influential purveyor of yindie in socal. and do you really want to come to their defense? see your post, 'fuck kcrw'. no, not less good music in the mainstream. less music “consumed” for sake of lifestyle. you are arguing that the ends, more good music in the mainstream, justify the means. my problem is with the means, that the yindie population is exerting a disproportionately large influence on music, an influence that undoubtably will grow in 06. yindies have disposable income and advertisers and megamedia conglomerates have taken notice that there is a market there. what do you think kcrw is? perhaps the most influential purveyor of yindie in socal. and do you really want to come to their defense? see your post, ‘fuck kcrw’.

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